But grace is doing less than you are capable in the name of mercy and love. The specific characteristics of Chemosh are not clear in many respects. Adonis | Anat | Asherah | Ashima | Astarte | Atargatis | Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol, with the most inhuman rites. Likewise, whatever the Lord our God has given us, we will possess. 16, ln. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. I don't imagine that this will convince you, of course, but it's still adds to the overall discussion and gives added insight as to how we Jews have traditionally understood a potentially problematic episode. Burton, Judd H. "Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites." Nergal Baal Berith Anammelech Nibhaz Ninurta Dagon. Apparently you didn't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims. Dispossess so to inherit his land! In fact, Yahweh appears to be only one of Elyons 70 sons. She would only be breaking her promise if I called her that day I was supposed to and she didn't go on a date with me. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. Does Yahweh regret and change his mind OR does he not? One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." But the Deuteronomist also took liberties in retelling the Moab tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted. Why would a god, any god, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? (Gen 2:4b vs Gen 14:19), #327. Facebook. in accordance with New World Encyclopedia standards. (For the unusual circumstances surrounding its discovery, see Archaeology and Biblical Research, Winter 1991: 2-3).Mesha was ruler of the small kingdom of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the mid-ninth century BC.He was a contemporary of Jehoshaphat, king of the . Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. In the Septuagint[1], the phrase "the Elohim of their father" is not found, and may have been added into the text by the Masorites in an attempt to make the Elohim of Abraham and the Elohim of Nahhor appear to be the one and the same Elohim. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. I think the Documentary Hypothesis should be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory! That suggests it wasnt redacted until the exile period, when the Pentatuch was created, as opposed to an earlier JE redaction. (Ex 32:27-28 vs Ex 32:35 vs Ex 32:34), #116. So Israel is made up of humans, and Elijah's prophecy is not a prophecy of predestined destruction of Moab. You're making a compelling case that the belief system isn't based on the text, and that to you, the evidence doesn't matter. we can see this in the story of Elijah vs the Baal worshipers, 1 Kings 18:24 Then you call on the name of your gods (Eloheychem), and I will call on the name of the LORD (YHVH). The Mesha Stele, also known as the Moabite Stone, is a black basalt monument bearing an inscription by the ninth century B.C.E. But, suddenly, in verse 27, the Moabite king sacrifices his own child, and "divine wrath" fell on Israel, causing them to retreat. But as a common literary topos, this same appeal to divine decree and the possession of land was also legitimated through the scribal pen of other ancient Near Eastern cultures, such as the Moabites, where it was Chemoshnot Yahwehwho decreed Moabs land as a rightful possession to the Moabites! Like the Hebrew deity Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. Of course, we cannot overlook the fact of . . Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . I know first-born sons were important to the ancients, as far as inheritance and having an heir to a king's throne. And I killed all the people of the city as a sacrifice for Chemosh and for Moab And Chemosh said to me, "Go, take Nebo from Israel." Finally this tradition claims that the Israelites passed. Israel may have been too vigorous in pursuing the war, pushing the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah's wrath. In this regard my educational and literary pursuits are much much greater than any believer. This was how nations legitimated the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants. Do the Israelites set out for the wilderness of Paran OR Hazeroth? This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." The men of Gad lived in the land of Atarot from ancient times; and the king of Israel built Atarot for himself. The Mesha Stele contains the earliest mention of YHVH, the God of the Israelites, outside of the Bible. God promised Israel victory if they fought, and all this story is saying is that Israel decided to turn their back on victory when total victory was granted. But that is mankind! Podcast Pre-Nicene PerspectiveYahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:262023217 In the itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, the Israelites pass. Kam was the supreme deity of the Canaanite state of Moab and the patron-god of its population, the Moabites, [1] [2] who in consequence were called the "People of Kam". The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. Unfortunately this type of Humanities education is often not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a humanities course. You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town." Begin! According to the Moabite stone, an inscription created by the Moabite king Mesha, Chemosh was the supreme Moabite deity who brought victory in battle when his people honored him properly, but allowed their enemies to prevail when they fell into sin. It's predictive power is a bit suspect but it's never really wrong! King Josiah destroyed the Israelite branch of the cult (2 Kings 23). Learn Religions, Nov. 12, 2021, learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. Mixing of religions, worship of many gods. Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? 21:29; Jer. Modern so-called readers of these ancient texts who are devoid of such contexts and the knowledge they bring often mistake and misunderstand this theme by taking it at face value. 7. Biblical scholars have also noted that Chemosh's role in the Moabite Stone inscription is analogous to that of Yahweh in the book of Kings. Mesha vs. Omri and "his son") and god (Chemosh vs. Yahweh). (Ex 33:11 vs Num 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:5-7), #224. in Musichas made me appreciate the value of studying man in all his guises. First, he was Moab's national god. In 1868, an archaeological find at Dibon provided scholars with more clues to the nature of Chemosh. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). So he could be more powerful? This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. Later still, the tradition of monotheism emerged, in which other gods were regarded either as non-existent "false" deities, or as demons masquerading as God. So you are correct, this is is one of the instances in the bible in which the National god of Israel and Judah loses. If anyone's conclusions don't hold water it's yours. The ultimate journey is to understand ourselves. Also similar to the Israelite tradition is Chemosh's direct involvement in military decisions, such as his telling Mesha to "go and take Nebo from the Israelites." Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them by Dr. Steven DiMattei. How many Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550? Each nation's deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Chemsoh, Osiris, etc.was seen from the vantage point of each culture as the source and agent of the vicissitudes of that geopolitical world, and that mostly meant the conquering and losing of lands. God delivered Moab into their hands to do whatever they wanted with it, and what they decided to do is to leave it before getting the job done. As the subtext, Chemosh and the Moabite Stone seem to reveal something of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of the period. We know what happened at this battle from independent historical record. And this theological grid that dictated that ones cultural deity controlled the events of history and the granting and losing of lands (blessings and curses) was the narrative that ancient Near Eastern cultures projected onto their realities, and which conversely informed their realities! "The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, atheist w.r.t the Christian God | agnostic w.r.t others. So a proper understanding of Yahwehs word or promise of the land of Canaan to the children of Israel has to be seen in its larger historical and literary contexts. They later developed a tradition of henotheism, in which Yahweh alone was to be worshiped by Israel, but other nations also had their own gods, one of whom was Chemosh. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. What were the borders of the land of Canaan promised to the patriarchs by Yahweh: from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates, #13. The Very First Bible: The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well. as a record of Mesha's victories in his revolt against the Kingdom of Israel after the death of his overlord, King Ahab. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. That is each nationIsraelite, Babylonian, Egyptian, Moabite, etc.viewed and understood the flux of the geopolitical landscape as something controlled by their national deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Osiris, or Chemosh! I think the Documentary Hypothesis should be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory dedicated to Chemosh well. Disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given us we... Any believer, king Ahab how nations legitimated the land of Atarot Ancient. 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